General Godwin Alabi-Isama, the Chief of Staff, Third Marine Commando during the Civil War speaks to on the security situation in Nigeria
Q: Congratulations on your 85th Birthday General. Looking back, how do you feel?
A: Well, I feel very good. And like we say in Islam, Alhamdulillah Rabbil Alameen. You know, when you say Alhamdulillah when my mother was alive, she would ask you to complete it by saying Alhamdulillah Rabbil Alameen. So, I am very happy. I thank God. Even though I say Alhamdulillah, I am still a Christian. My mother was a Muslim, but I do the two. We fast, pray and celebrate Eid together. We also celebrate Christmas together. But I feel very good. I feel highly elated when I see people around me who don’t deride me. It’s just like the write-up somebody wrote about me, which I sent to you. I don’t even think I know the man. He described my character and said I am unbreakable. They tried to break me. I just read the reason they wanted to break me in Professor Omo Omoruyi’s book. Omoruyi used the word autonomous to describe me. He said Alabi is an autonomous Nigerian. If someone is wrong be it Hausa, Ibo or Yoruba, you will tell them they are wrong. If someone deserves praise, you acknowledge it. You do not take sides. You just want things done properly.
People don’t like that in this country. They are looking for who will support their tribe, who they can move around, who they can manipulate to do things for them. I will not do things for you if you are not doing well, or if you don’t deserve it.
But I thank God that I am 85. I am going to drive myself back to Ilorin. I drove to Lagos.
Q: All by yourself?
A: Yes, by myself.
You were not chauffeured?
A: No. On my way here, my car broke down at Oyo. We repaired it. It broke down again at Ibadan. We repaired it. I left Ibadan at about quarter past seven and got here (Ikoyi, Lagos) around ten past ten. It was very dangerous. Some people were driving against traffic, some places had no proper lighting. But I arrived safely. I’m good. I’m good. Praise the Lord. Hallelujah!
At 80, you were very agile. Now you are 85. What are the things you could do then that you can no longer do?
A: In those days, I did a lot of sports. I still do some now, but not as much as before. I play football every Saturday, basketball on Mondays, billiards on Wednesdays, Tuesday, I don’t play any games. When I was younger, as soon as I dropped my luggage anywhere, I would start looking for a nightclub, and I would be the last person to leave. Now, I don’t even want to go to a nightclub at all.
There are a few things I have learnt. Running around everywhere and meeting everybody, the Army taught me not to do that. I remember there was a coup, and I was supposed to be chairman of the party at Asaba. I flew from Lagos to Benin because there was no airport at Asaba at the time. It was raining heavily. I didn’t want to go. The car was waiting, the driver was waiting, the escort was ready. I just said, “Look, everybody, go home.” And I slept there for the night. The next morning, I took the same flight. It was a police flight, and I went back to Lagos. All the people who attended the party were guilty of planning a coup. So, many things happened in my life. As a result of that, I hardly go to people’s houses. You can’t read people’s minds- Gbogbo Alangba lo danu dele, a o mo eyi t’inu n run (All lizards lie on their belly, we don’t know which of them is suffering from a bellyache). I learnt a lot of lessons from that. Things that I used to do as a young man- chase around. Now they chase me (laughter).
You still look smart, agile, and fit. In terms of body system, do you feel 85 at all?
Somebody asked me this same question at Amebo Alison’s 84th birthday party. I feel 58 rather than 85. It’s by the grace of God, MashaAllah. Bi Olorun se fee ni (It’s how God wants it). It’s not because I did something differently or do what others do not do. It’s the grace of God. I thank God.
People believe that because you are a soldier that is why you are still agile. Is there anything called ‘Abere soja’(Soldier’s injection)?
There is a picture of the Dream Team of the Marine Commando with Adekunle, myself and so on. Among all in that picture, I’m the only one alive today. So, there’s nothing like an abere soldier. The only inoculation I had in the Army was the anti-tetanus vaccine because to walk in the jungle, to crawl you would scrape your leg, you would have wounds everywhere and if they are not treated quickly, there will be gangrene. As a result of that, we had this anti-tetanus vaccination. That’s all.
Let’s go to the issue of insecurity situation in the country, what is your appraisal of how the government is handling it?
A: Hum mm! My second book is addressing this issue. The problem of insecurity in the country is a very simple one. If you climb the ladder from the top, you are bound to fall. If you climb the ladder from the bottom, that’s how you get to the top. In 1975, I was transferred to the Army Headquarters. I normally never liked Lagos because of the traffic. So, I told Danjuma who was the Chief of Army Staff that it had been four years since there had been fighting in Kano. Sokoto, Maiduguri, and it was spreading. They were called Maitesene. “Now that I’m at the Army Headquarters, can I go there?” He said no, no, no, there is a commander there. I said yes but the order must come from the Army Headquarters, and I am now the Principal Staff Officer like a Permanent Secretary. Can I go there even if only to see? At that time, we had an E branch of the police, which was disbanded in 1978 by Obasanjo. The E branch had a lot of information and a security report on the subject. They came to brief. It is not a difficult issue. Some twenty people who would go and ambush soldiers and kill them, and there was nothing the soldiers did. A whole battalion? With a wave of hand, Danjuma just said okay, go! I got there. The Emir of Ilorin now was the Chief Judge. They gave me intelligence report again, I called the Commander. I was like, ‘there’s nothing wrong here’. The man causing the trouble came all the way from Cameroon to come and teach us how to organize Islam, not even how to pray! But how to organize ourselves! What do you mean?
He said something is called ‘Bid’a’, and he wanted us to practice Wahabism, the way Islam is practiced in Saudi Arabia. And you came all the way from Cameroon and you have to kill all our people? Alright. I have about fifty pictures on this subject. People claimed they did this, they did that, it’s okay. But I have the pictures, I went there. They said if the man was shot, the bullet would turn to water. I said “I am not even coming with any weapon. I will come and meet you.” The Army gave me a battalion. I said the battalion should wait. I asked the Inspector-General of Police, Sunday Adewusi to give me 25 men, among whom fifteen to twenty should come from the area and speak the language. The fifteen to twenty must be Muslims. The remaining five could be Muslims or Christians, it didn’t matter. I just wanted a contingent of twenty-five. I have the pictures right here in this house. And I told them, we are not going there with weapons. We are going there to meet this man.
When I got there, I said I didn’t come here to kill anybody. I just did not want this man to kill any of our people again. I said if you killed any police officer, I would level the place. If you killed any soldier, I would level the place. So, we went to meet him in Lake Chad. He said that he agreed to meet me. I sent a message to him. There was a Cameroonian lady who was at Benin University. I knew her there at the time. She had become a senior in Immigration. I told her a story to get Maitesene for me. The meeting was well arranged. At that time, Lake Chad was drying and formed three islands. We went to the first, second and the third island. They said the man went to Cameroon. I said but he gave me an appointment. Anyway, I saw what happened. Number one, they were killing Nigerians. They were kidnapping them for ransom, and they had a very beautiful farm on the third Island of Lake Chad. That’s what he was spending the money on. He had some Nigerians with him, and when I asked them: “You are all Nigerians?” they said yes. And this man came all the way from Cameroon, claiming to come and teach you Islam and he’s killing your people! I gave my copy of the Qur’an to them, they couldn’t read Qur’an! I was shocked. I arrested all of them, using the police officers and I brought all of them back to Maiduguri. In exactly fifteen days, it was over. There was no Maitesene any more until I left the Army in 1977.
Where was the man at that time?
A: He went to Cameroon but left some of his people and the Nigerians on the third island. I told all of them to follow me and they followed me. I handed them to the Police, I have the pictures right here on my laptop. The thing about the insecurity here is that some people are interested. If they were not interested, it would not stay. We went to the Civil War in which two million people died. The war that we won. Unfortunately, we didn’t know how to win the peace. That’s why we still have the problem. Now, we are talking about the insecurity that our soldiers have been fighting for fifteen years. The shoes the bandits wear; the clothes they wear; the food they eat; the ammunition they use; the weapons they use, somebody must be interested. Somebody somewhere must be interested. For fifteen years? Calculate the budget for fifteen years. Such an amount would be good enough to look after our poor people. The other factor of the insecurity in the country is the political system. It’s called feudalism. The British did not put democracy in Nigeria. Throughout 1914 till 1960, we had only one election. When the British were here, they did not organize election for us. They continued to tell us that the feudalism in existence was good for this country. Whereas, if I remember, Oliver Cromwell fought the King of England on this same issue, where the King would distribute money- members of parliament would have this, states or local governments would have that. It was like a beggar system where you would distribute money. What happened when the money was not available for whatever reason?
Let me use myself as an example. I grew up in Ilorin. I was born there. We had what we called Baale, head of the family, Alabi Kanike. We were about twenty children in the house. Every morning, he would give us money for breakfast, lunch and dinner. When the man died, there was nobody to give us money. My mother was away and I would just carry a little plate and stay at a junction as a beggar, as a little boy. They would put Onini (farthing) at that time, a part of one Kobo. I would quickly go and buy cassava, it’s called ‘rogo’. Another person would come again and put another one, I would go and buy groundnut to eat my rogo.
When my mother came for the eighth day Fidau, she asked: “Where is my pikin?” They said your pikin dey for junction. My mother said junction ke! My son, as onibaara (a beggar)? That’s how she took me away from Ilorin to my maternal grandparents’ home at Owode, a place 25 miles away from Abeokuta, Ogun State where they had kolanut farm. Now, I was a beggar because there was no more money coming from somebody. I was a little boy. The older ones were picking bags and stealing things around. If somebody gave them either ten naira, five hundred naira, one thousand naira, and so on to go and kill someone, they would. So, it’s feudalism that caused our problem of insecurity. I have a video of children who were beggars and children in the West who were going to school. Which ones will become bandits when they grow up?
And the British that told us that feudalism was good for us jettisoned feudalism in 1625 when Oliver Cromwell fought against the King of England, Charles the 1st. The parliament, led by Oliver Cromwell, won. They tried the King in 1641, I think, the king was beheaded. And then they had what was called the Glorious Revolution in England. So, this type of situation and the fact that the British, Lord Lugard, Lewis Vernon Harcourt, the secretary of Britain at the time and Sir James Robertson who was governor at Independence together made sure that the North would rule Nigeria. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to be intelligent enough to be able to do that. That was why when I got to the Army Headquarters, the first thing I did was to write a memo. The story is in my book, The Tragedy of Victory. We did what was called ‘Building a Qualitative Army’ and the senior officer said: “Ha! Only the Southerners would benefit.” Wait a minute, I did not join the Southern Army or Northern Army. I joined the Nigerian Army. I said we would give a test and those who pass will be the people who will go to university.
Before 1976, unless you were a doctor or engineer specially employed as a graduate. Ifaejuna and Wole Rotimi were my coursemates; we joined the Army the same year, the first set of graduates at the time to go through the training school at the Military College. Finally, the issue of feudalism is the biggest cause of insecurity in Nigeria. As long as we fail to get the politics right, we will have more problems of insecurity.
These little beggars have grown up, and I remember reading a book Awolowo wrote about this type of situation that the children that we fail to train today will be our problem tomorrow. They are our problem now. It’s the same thing that there are fifty beggars and there are ten professors, in democracy it is a game of number. The fifty beggars would win the election against the ten professors and you would have to pick the ministers from them. These are the reason we are where we are today. So many things caused the problem. To solve it, we will have to go back to the errors. Whatever went wrong with family, with children, with your states, your local governments and so on, we have to go back to the errors and fix them.The then President Goodluck Jonathan tried to build Alimajiri Schools, nobody attended. Because it’s so easy to say if you want to eat breakfast tomorrow, I am the one giving you money to feed, go and vote for that camera, and that’s what they will vote for. Feudalism is a potent tool.
Are you saying that we are facing the consequences of the feudal system practiced in the past or you are saying we are still practicing feudalism?
Feudalism is what we are still practicing.
You said we cannot solve the problem unless we get to the roots of it. That sounds like a long term solution. What can we do in the immediacy now to stop the killings?
No, it has to be what the Latin calls pari passu. We must do it together at the same time. For instance, let’s look at Sharia. In the Tragedy of Victory, I wrote on pages 463 to 466. You have two-party system. You have state police, now they are talking about it. Awolowo started talking about regionalizing the police for security, everybody said no. So, he started Forest Rangers. If you look at Nigeria today comparatively, the East, the North and the West, which one is most peaceful? The West, because there was a foundation laid- employment and education. When I was in the Primary School, we had what was called handwork. It’s a whole lesson period- we would make baskets, tooth picks, dust bin, there was carpentry. PhD is not enough. If you are a professor and become late, can your children inherit your certificates? Can my children inherit my Army medals? They will throw them away. They are not useful to them. But if you are a carpenter and you teach your children carpentry or you are a tailor or a farmer, you give your farms to your kids the results will be different.
Feudalism is the cause, what should we do? Now, we have two-part system. Campaign on the basis of your program. If you want Sharia, there are people who will vote for you. But for you to lord it over Nigeria is wrong. I think that’s why Prof. Omoruyi said: “Alabi, you are an autonomous Nigerian. They cannot bribe you.” It’s so because my mother had told me “Ma je k’oju o timi ni Ansarudeen o. Ma je ki won o ni iya ole lo nlo yen o (Don’t put me to shame in Ansarudeen School. Don’t let them accuse me of being mother of a thief). I knew what my colleagues were doing. I had more opportunities than all of them. That’s why I’m here. You (one of the interviewers) have been to my house in Ilorin, I have no gate man. People just open the gate and come in. That’s what my mother wanted. I had promised her that I would live and die in her house. So, if you like come in and kill me there. So, to stop feudalism, train the children, let there be jobs.
Let me give you an example of what this government has done, I’m not a politician. The Lagos-Calabar Highway that is being constructed, somebody in Johannesburg said he built a thousand kilometers with 1 or $2 billion but in Nigeria, you people built it with about 20 billion. He hasn’t even been to Lagos! I have been to his country, I have seen the type of soil in your country. The sand filling alone on that Lagos-Calabar Road would be more than $2 billion he’s talking about. If you have a map of Nigeria, from Lagos to Calabar they are building a road. There are two ports in Lagos. I think they are trying to put the third one at Lekki. There will be Cocoa port. There will be Sapele port. There will be Calabar port. There is one already in Port Harcourt. So, Nigeria will have about eight ports. Then, they want to build a road from Lagos to Sokoto. Let me tell you what that will give us. If you are an investor. You arrive in Nigeria, you will want to stay in Ibadan or close to Lagos where the market is and the population. To get an acre of land in Lagos, you will be paying more than fifty million naira. But if that road is completed to Sokoto and the one from Calabar is completed to Maiduguri, just imagine. The person does not need to stay in Lagos any more. He would go to Maiduguri and buy that acre for one million. Whatever he’s able to produce will arrive in Lagos by train the next morning. Creation of job. You are to create the environment, that is, the road, the railway, the ports and other infrastructure. Can I illustrate it on the map of Nigeria? (He drew the Nigeria map to explain the spread and synergy of the infrastructure).
Look at the great prospects if we revive the railway. That was why it baffled me when former President Buhari said he wanted to make a railway to Maradi (in Niger Republic). Doing a road to Maradi is unreasonable. There’s no railway from Lagos to Calabar; from Lagos to Port Harcourt, and you want to do a road to Maladi. In those days you had to go to Kaduna before you can get to Port Harcourt. It’s a great opportunity for us in this country. The geo-politics of the country is the best to take off anywhere in the world. We have manpower; we have land; we have capital; in fact, we have so much oil that we give the oil to individuals! We must be sick! The Marine Commando captured all the oil in this country, and I have not heard of anyone of us getting an oil block, except Danjuma. Look at the gold in Zamfara. There is oil in the continental shelf. Let us divide that and share to the states instead of giving individuals to buy more cars and marry more wives. Today, we are all limping. If you give oil block to me, maybe before I die I will have sold it to the Chinese. I have sold it to have private jet to go to where? You see, because he has private jet, the idiot will start making unnecessary visits just to warm the jet and show off. You can’t even have a rest. That is feudalism for you. I was told that somebody in Maiduguri had so much oil, that his house was made of gold, everywhere shining and so on. Now, he’s late! Like Mobutu Seseko in Congo, his children could not maintain his house. That is the result of feudalism.
Let’s create the environment to create jobs for our people. That is what we need to do now. Then, you have the ports at the continental shelf. Share the oil to the states. In each state, there is oil everywhere. In the United States where I lived for 35 years, there are some states that are in the desert like Vegas, Nevada and so on. If the land will cost N5 there and in New York, the same size of land will cost N5m, I will go there because there is train to bring my goods. And that’s how we can develop the North itself. We have the richest people. We have people that have the money. More than 50% of beggars in any state in this country and in any town including the villages are from the North. So, what is the benefit of that to all of us? We need to get our policies right. There must be ideology. The unitary system we are practicing now was what Ironsi introduced. The Ibos introduced it because they thought it would be an advantage to them. Dishonesty is a temporary advantage. Today, where are they? If we want to stop insecurity, we will go back to where things went wrong. One party, unitary. One party, federalism. Let’s go and vote. The fact that you have one military clique somewhere and you have one political party somewhere is not going to work. Did I go to war for a Northern hegemony? I didn’t fight the war for a Northern Nigeria or an Eastern Nigeria or a Western Nigeria. I fought the war for One Nigeria, and I will continue to do so till I pass on to meet my maker. An election adjudged most free, fair and credible in this country was annulled just because you don’t want a southerner to become President? Let us be sincere and build a beautiful country, we have all it takes to achieve it.
We also need to give a role to the traditional rulers in our constitution. I will give you an example. The Commander in charge of the West at a time was an Ibo man, Amadi. He supported the Igbo then to kill soldiers, kill police and so on. He had to be removed and I was posted there. When I got there, I made Osogbo my headquarters. I was in charge of Ogbomosho, Saki, Iseyin, Igboho, Oyo, etc. I went to Oba Matanmi in Osogbo, greeted him and introduced myself to him in Yoruba Language. I told him that I was now the one in charge of the area, and that I needed his support and that of the people in the area. I said I didn’t want to fail and be put to shame. The king was happy as I was mentioning the areas. I told him I went to the Ibadan Boys High School and that I was the captain of the school’s football club. I said we played football in all the areas. Matanmi invited all the chiefs and said to them that can you see that it’s Yoruba that he’s speaking with us, unlike the other one whom we could not understand. He appealed to them to be cooperative and ensure my success in securing the area. The traditional rulers in the areas helped a lot. So, we have to use them.
The kings and the chiefs should be put in charge of security at the local government level. If anything happens in any local government, the king will be asked to explain. Recently in a town in Kwara State it was discovered that it was the monarch of the town that was selling guns to terrorists. If the traditional rulers support the local government in that capacity, security would start from there. Anyone arrested will either reveal his sponsors and accomplices or he gets shot. And the Court should not be used to try them. Use the military court martial system because they carry arms against the Constitution and the country. But if you use the court, they would go and meet the judge at home. We can also use a non-kinetic approach to defeat the terrorists. In a non-kinetic, there will not be collateral damage and you will achieve wonderful results.
Do you agree with people who say that insurgency in Nigeria is a spillover from Libya and other troubled regions in the Sahel?
We are looking for who to blame. Let us assume that it’s true. The people came from Libya to come and fight us. If we have captured some of them, did we interrogate them? Did we ask them what their aim is? The aim of the children of Israel in Egypt was what took them to Canaan. What is it that you want? Take the Niger Delta crisis for instance, the people said look, we have this oil, we have no school, the land has been polluted. We cannot farm. The rivers have been polluted, we cannot drink, so what do we do? We have to move out of the place. They had abandoned the place. The place had become a burial ground. Somebody would die in Lagos and they would take the corpse to Bayelsa or Port Harcourt so that they could bury him in his homeland because it had become a burial ground. The people knew why they were fighting. When the Army got there, they asked: Why are you fighting? They said look at our land, look at our river and we have the oil. How did it start? When Abacha wanted to be president, he invited twenty-five people from each local government to come to Abuja. They got there and were astonished by the magnificent infrastructure Nigeria had built with oil money within a short period. They went back and took up arms. This was how it started.
There was something I did in the military. I didn’t know it was going to be that successful. We were going to attack a place called Obubra. I made my plan. I addressed the troops. I said: “You see this plan, I made it in such a way for me to go back to meet my family alive. All of you do you want to go home and meet your family?” Everybody said “Yes, Sir.” I said then you must do everything that is contained in this order. I quoted a verse in the Bible that says, “We will do what you tell us to do and we go where you send us to go.” The Army has never trained anybody to do his best. When I say so, people wonder: You are not trained to do your best? Yes, you are trained to go to where you are told to go and do what you are told to do. Full stop. If I tell you to capture Ibadan from Lagos and you get to Ibafo and say oga we tried our best, I will shoot you myself. You must go to where you are sent and do what you are told, you are not trained to do your best. Some of these issues are so easy. But we are all trying to climb the ladder from the top because you want either Ibo, Hausa or Yoruba to win. Why would you want anybody to win? That was the problem we had and still have till today. And nobody has sat down to say: how do we solve it? Somebody came here yesterday analyzing Nnamdi Kanu’s case. He said you see what Nigeria did. I said what did Nigeria do? He said they put a Yoruba man there to try the man, and now a Fulani man is saying release him. That’s divide and rule. I asked him to explain it again. The man is right! If the Yoruba man would jail Kanu and the Fulani man is saying release Kanu, Fulani man becomes the friend of the Igbo and the Yoruba man becomes enemy of the Igbo. That’s divide and rule. We hate each other. That is the problem of Nigeria.
In World War II, the Allied forces defeated Nazi Germany. Remember that Nazi Germany is a political party, they had opposition. If the allied forces defeated Nazi Germany, what about the opposition? There was one General George Marshall whose strategy is referred to as the ‘Marshall Plan’. Gen. Marshall built their roads, built their railways, put their factories back to functioning. Today, you could see that Germany is the best country in Europe. It’s the richest in Europe today. The Igbo did not surrender in this country. I was among those who fought the War; the Igbo did not surrender during the Civil War. It was the Biafra agitators that surrendered. That was why in Marine Commando anyone that we captured, I would tell him “if you want to go back to your village, you are free. If you want to join us you are free, and if you want me to shoot you, I will” (laughter). It became a joke. They stayed with us in Marine Commando. They showed us the way. The war did not end because we killed them, we had defeated them mentally before they were physically defeated. Those that came that we captured were firm. Pictures are in my book. We would say, ‘If you go back, no chop there o, I go give you chop here.’ That was the strategy of trust that we used. If you trust me, you would do what I want. And if you do what I want, you are my friend. It’s as simple as that.
Gowon had a code of conduct for our soldiers- don’t kill children, don’t kill women, look after the elderly, and so on. When they captured Port Harcourt, one of my troops told me: “Oga, we don get am o. we don get the Commander!” I asked them: “Wetin be him name?” They said Ogbugo Kalu. He was my boss. Would they tie his hands and bring him to me? We were friends. I just said: “Get a vehicle there, fill it up with fuel and tell him to go through Port Harcourt-Owerri Road. Let him go. We put the others we captured back in Marine Commando. They showed us the way. They took us on patrols. That was how the war ended. But we have not won the peace because we failed to do what General Marshall did in Germany. We have not applied the Marshall Plan to address the grievances of the Igbo in this country.
But we understand that properties seized from the Igbos were returned to them after the war. The sum of N20 was also paid by the Federal Military Government to every Igbo who had money in the bank before the war.
A: My brother that is bad news. Here is what happened. Awolowo gave the Igbo N20. It was a lot of money then. But the arrangement was that any amount you have in Nigerian bank, you would be given N20. They didn’t say if you have N1m, we would give you N1m. But one thing the West did well was to say those of you that rented Ibos’ houses, collect the money and this is where you will pay it to. When the people came back after the war, the money was given back to them. They didn’t do that in the North. N20 was not enough though it was something tangible in their pockets. How much did the allied forces give the Germans at the end of the war? That is one point. The second point about the peace that we missed is that the abandoned properties that you talked about, was it the Federal Government that said Igbos’ properties were abandoned properties? Up till today I have not gotten an answer to that. The Federal Government did not describe any property as abandoned property. It was under Obasanjo’s leadership of Marine Commando that they became abandoned property. Gowon never said the Igbos’ property should be taken away from them. It was the hatred of the Igbos by some people. I still maintain that not all the Igbos were Biafra. I’m still saying it, the Igbo did not surrender in this country. It is because we did not know how to win the peace that they continue to agitate for Biafra. The children fighting for Biafra now were not even born at the time.
What is your reaction to the United States intervention in Nigeria with the bombing in Sokoto and the promise by Israel to also intervene?
A: Do you know that America was here before, joined the Nigerian Army to fight terrorists? The first week of their attack, they went back. They felt that nobody would be able to finish Boko Haram in the next 20 years. People asked why? Every time they were going on an attack, the terrorists knew they were coming! So, they just packed their things and left. I was away when I heard them talking about intervention, and I came back to hear that they were already bombing. But when the Christians were killing Muslims in Kosovo, Clinton went there. Somebody would now say Muslims are also being killed. It doesn’t matter. One person killed is just too many for me. It doesn’t matter whether it is Muslims or Christians who are being killed. Let all of us think now. Is it not true that they are killing Christians? Is it not true that Muslims also are dying? And the Qur’an says if you kill a soul, you have killed a whole nation.
How would you react to the behaviour of Sheikh Ghumi?
Alright, I’m happy you asked this question because I met Gumi’s father, Abubakar Gumi. I was an instructor at the military school in 1961. We just came back from Congo, I was transferred to the military school. David Mark, Ogbeha, Idiagbon and co were my students at the military school whom I recruited at the time. I used to take them on training at Naraguta in Jos because of the topography and weather of the area. I met one other man called Baba Nasirudeen. He had a factory making Nasco Biscuit and Nasco Conflakes. The man was so nice to us that more than 50% of our foods were given to us free by Baba Nasirudeen. The man and Abubakar Gumi wanted to improve, just like Maitesene wanted to do, from bid’a to Wahabism. Therefore, they formed an organization. They had a school training these people in Islam so that they would have proper Islam. Today’s Sheikh Gumi was a little boy then. He was among the students. Baba Nasirudeen was from Eritrea. He was not a Nigerian. But because we abandoned these people after Baba Nasirudeen and Abubakar Gumi, we have all these Almajiris all over the place. How can there be Almajiri? Can Babangida’s children or Abubakar’s children be Almajiri?
Another thing is what the Qur’an says that there shall not be compulsion in religion. But Babangida took us to IOC which divided the country. That is not what we want in this country, we were looking for unity. By extension of that, we annulled election and further divided the country. Like Prof. Omoruyi would say Abiola was an autonomous Southerner. He didn’t need the North to give him money, he would have an independent mind.
As to what Gumi is saying, he must have some backing somewhere. Otherwise, you would not incite people by saying why should we kill bandits when they are our brothers, fathers and sons. Your father is killing somebody when your Qur’an tells you not to kill. You are kidnapping people for ransom when the Qur’an tells you that Allah is going to ask you about your deeds. Do we really believe in the Qur’an and the Bible? There is no doubt in my mind that somebody is approving whatever Gumi is saying. Left for me, I would have picked them up. As a General when I was in the Army, I would have picked them up. And the worst anybody could do was to send me out of the Army which they did. A lot of people are dying and the people who are dying are from the North. The people they are killing are from the North. In fact when I was away on a trip I read the story of a bandit that killed a policeman and wore his uniform to attend a meeting with the government! Ha! In fact, someone told me that worshippers in Katsina were in the Mosque on a Friday and bandits took forty of them out of the Mosque and killed them! Is that what Islam says? What do we really want in this country? Everyday stories here and there. Yoruba says, ‘Eni to kan lo mo’. You would kidnap my daughter and they are in Sambisa Forest. That forest was my headquarters during Maitesene. It was Babangida that improved it, wanting to make it an Army area. I used to go there regularly because of the ostrich. The egg of an ostrich is enough for ten of us to eat. That’s why I made the place my headquarters. I think we have missed the point and it’s unfortunate. The kidnapped Chibok girls case is still there. Leah Sharibu’s case is still there. Is this what we want for our country? Can’t the elders sit down together to discuss how to put the country right for all of us so we can all live to die in peace? That’s all I am saying. We have won the war; let us win the peace.
On the international scene, what is your reaction to how the United States went to Venezuela and captured the president?
A: If I say it’s not right, it has been done. If I say it is right, it has been done. What it means is that any country in this world can go anywhere, attack the place and get out from there. Let me now give a warning. Maduro, the President of Venezuela was betrayed by his security. There is a story in my new book. (Sani) Abacha was my very good friend. He was my junior officer. He was always in my house, there are pictures I have put in the book. He was always asking saying, “Oga mi, tell me how we will stop any coup.” He didn’t say how we would stage a coup but how we would stop any coup, and I would analyse. I gave the example of the first coup led by Nzeogwu. The security is not tight enough. In the second coup at Ibadan, they picked the Commander-in-Chief, General Ironsi, and the Administrator of the Western Region, Adekunle Fajuyi. Danjuma just said, “I salute. Sir, you are under arrest.” I, Alabi would be put under arrest? We would all die there. It was like what Biafran soldiers came to do to me at Asaba during the war. They wanted to arrest Alabi-Isama. My mother was in Lagos, you would carry me to Enugu? The two of us must die there.
Where were Maduro’s Army Commanders? Where were they? His security had been compromised. So, even if Russia, China or Nigeria would want to help, your people had compromised. I don’t think U.S. was interested in Venezuela, they were only interested in their resources.
Apart from that, Venezuela was trying to say look we are not going to sell our oil to you again. If we would sell our oil to you, you will pay us in Yuan not in Dollars. America did not want to hear that. And since they have the power, they went to pick him up.
A similar thing was why the Aburi Accord failed in Nigeria. Nigeria realised that it had the power. We came back from Aburi, Ojukwu took the paper to his people. Ojukwu was ready. Nigeria was not ready as usual. If there was a meeting tomorrow, we would go and drink and dance because we were not ready. Whatever decision would now become a fire brigade approach. It’s the same thing. When the then permanent secretary, now Oba Akensua, said this agreement that you all signed is not good for Nigeria because of some this because of that, if we were honest to ourselves and to our country, we will all go to meet God very soon because we are all over 80 years now, what should have happened was to say let us meet again to discuss this issue. The Nigerian side should have written down its concerns and passed it over to the East, if we actually wanted a true Nigeria. But because we were winning and thought yes we have all the power to defeat the East. Ojukwu too was saying there was no power in black Africa that could defeat Biafra, and his people said: “Give us weapon.” He had no weapon to give them. He thought it was like a coup where you could just kill the president without much weapons and you go to Asaba guest house and carry Alabi-Isama.
So, it was Nigerian side that breached the Aburi Agreement?
Yes, and I am writing it in my coming book.
Doesn’t this means that Ojukwu was right to have declared Biafra?
No, Ojukwu was also not right. I’m saying it today in front of all of you. Both sides were wrong. Ojukwu prepared the paper he handed to everybody at the meeting. Nigeria had no paper. General Yakubu Gowon was there. Adeyinka Adebayo was there. Mobolaji Johnson was there. David Ejoor was there. The Chief of the Police was there. The Deputy Police Chief was there. The Commissioner was there. They were all there. We did not go with any paper. I just came back from Aburi (for some facts on the new book I am writing). I went there and was lucky I met some old people, those who served the drinks, those who were secretaries, the discussions they submitted to me are all in the new book I am writing. Nigeria did not go with any paper. Ojukwu gave his paper. They went and discussed it. They agreed that it was okay. They signed. They brought the paper back to Nigeria. Naturally, Gowon would give it to the Supreme Military Council to have a look. I don’t know who they gave it to, but it was Prince Akenzua, the then Permanent Secretary, who wrote to point out some deficiencies in the agreement. I was just 27 years during the war. I am 85 today, looking at the whole thing all over again. Nigeria should have said, look when we got home we passed it to the highest ruling body and these are the adjustments recommended. But we did not do that. Ojukwu too was wrong to insist that “It is on Aburi we stand”. Why would you stand on Aburi? Though it was an agreement there but Gowon had to pass it to the Council for a debate after which there were bound to be adjustments. If there are concerns, Nigeria ought to put it down as a comment and pass it to Ojukwu. We can then say let us go and meet again in Aburi or elsewhere to renegotiate. But we didn’t do that. I think Nigeria had an agenda to Northernise Nigeria.
That brings us to this question. You were 27 when you fought passionately for One Nigeria during the Civil War. Looking back now with the benefit of hindsight, would you still have fought for One Nigeria if you knew what you know now?
At 85 now what I would have done based on what I know now was that there would be no fighting. There would be more of talking. Ojukwu himself would have been discussing more on the constitution rather than saying no power in Africa could defeat them. What he was thinking was that because he had 37 senior officers, intelligent and well trained officers, building up an army would not be difficult for him. Majority of officers on the Nigerian side were young officers. So, he underrated the young officers. In fact, The General Officer Commanding of Biafra, Alexander Madiebo who was Domkat Bali’s senior officer at the artillery said “who would be able to monitor Nigeria’s artillery? Is it Domkat Bali?” But when Bali started firing the artillery, he was pinpointing. He was doing better than anybody else. If you want to know the strength of anybody, give him the opportunity. I also found myself capturing my boss using tactics. How was I able to do that? He taught me some of these things!
So, we were all flexing muscles. Gowon was under 40. Ojukwu was under 40. Everybody wanted to fight. If there were a parliament, they would debate for like two months, and tempers would cool down. These were military people and they wanted a fight and luckily something happened, it’s an intelligence report. The British and the American consuls at Enugu went to Ojukwu and said these Atlantic areas, are you sure they are being defended properly? Ojukwu said “No problem. The whole of the creeks there, which Nigerian soldier would know where they are let alone coming through them?” Adekunle infiltrated Bonny, captured all the oil tanks with 13 million barrels of oil in the tanks. Before they started fighting, they had already captured them. That was the best military strategy this country ever used. So for what I know now at 85, there would be more talking than going into war.
You have diagnosed the country’s security crisis and comprehensively explained the causes. But the solutions you highlighted appear long term in nature. Killings are going on almost on daily basis. As a war strategy, what can be done militarily immediately to stop the killings?
The first thing, I still repeat, there are people in there who are interested. Some alleged sponsors have been mentioned. Some people have been caught. What have been the results of investigations? What did you find out? Some insiders are frustrating efforts to stop terrorism in Nigeria. Okay, you captured some bandits. You trained and put them back in the Army. I have a video of a trained bandit who still had ammunition hidden around his body going to kill the Nigerian troops. And the next thing you would hear is that bandits killed twenty soldiers. These were the people you trained. When we took Biafran soldiers that we captured during the Civil War, they led us to where the others were. The ones you have captured, instead of putting them into the Army, they should lead you to where the rest are.
How do we get those interested persons?
You got them. Dubai tried some Nigerians and sent them to Abubakar Malami, what did we do? There are people benefitting from what is happening. There is no way you can solve the problem if this continues.
In Nigeria, the pattern has been that every government that comes will end up appearing worse than its predecessor. All of them have come with lofty promises and people would be excited and accept them but end up being failures. The current administration has shown courage by taking some bold steps to change the trend and put the country on the path of success. Are you sincerely hopeful of real progress this time around?
Your question is very important. Let’s start with (Abubakar Tafawa) Balewa. How did Balewa get there? That is why I always say let’s go back to the error. In 1914, all the Emirs in the North were so happy that Lord Lugard went on a tour of their areas. They received him with gifts, with durbars, fifteen thousand, twenty thousand horses received him. When he came to the West, who cares? An Oyinbo man walking in the street, and so what? He got to the East, it was also not a big deal that an Oyinbo man wore uniform. They had seen all of that before. They went to good schools. Lord Lugard was impressed with the North for looking after him.
In the Bible if you give somebody a gift, he becomes your friend. That’s why he gave Nigeria to the North. He considered the South too cocky. They were educated. Awolowo established television station, everybody went and did the same thing. Awolowo established free education through which children of the poor became educated and became ministers in their various places. He built a stadium, the first stadium in Africa. Everybody too started building stadium. Awolowo was like the defacto President then. Everything he did, everybody wanted to do. The point you are making, my brother, is a very simple point if we are sincere. When Lord Lugard, his Secretary in England, Harcourt and Sir James Robertson put Balewa there, some few years before election, they were already training Balewa. This fact is in Omoruyi’s book and nobody has said it didn’t happen.
Then, Balewa gave Sir James Robertson extra two years, and if you looked at Balewa’s ministers, majority were Igbos- MT Mbu, Okoi Arikpo, Okoti Eboh, and so on. There was a coalition between NPN of the North and the NCNC of the Southeast. The two of them were on each other’s throats and killed each other. The Igbos talk about pogrom. Who caused the pogrom? You killed their leaders. They couldn’t lay their hands on your own leaders, they laid their hands on your traders because they were the ones who had attractive items such as fans, radios, television sets, etc. and those things would belong to them after attacking you. Those are the reasons for the pogrom they talk about. It was the same way Hausas were killed at Asaba. There is a book entitled: BLOOD OF THE NIGER by a journalist, Emma Okocha, an Asaba man. He recounted how they killed Hausas in Asaba. And when the tide turned and Hausas came back, they also laid their hands on the Asaba people who were jubilating at the time. And then you say pogrom, who started the killing? They killed Balewa, they killed Sadauna despite the fact that all the key positions in Balewa’s government were held by the Ibos. The real progress will come when we go back to true federalism where everybody takes charge of their own state, have your own police and look after your security. By the grace of God, in my life time, we will have state police, local government police, and even school police. We need to be sincere, people are dying or is it because their own children are not involved? Ha!
*Culled from TheNEWS magazine website. The story link was shared on Facebook